how can you count a state senator as experience for president?
In my diary, I should have focused on experience rather than foreign policy.
But the fact is,
Clinton had experience being a chief executive.
Other people have had experience in a statewide position, and then having to defend their record of acheivement.
Obama has never had to make tough decisions on a national level and then stand for reelection and defend himself.
We don't know who/what he is.
As evidenced by the last 2months of switching rhetoric and positons.
no one could say, obama would definitely do this or that.
there's no experience or track record on virtually anthing of substance.
I'm going to take a chance and vote for him because i'm a dem, but i dont' have to act like he is qualified when he isn't
So then what experience did Hillary have? She didn't have any executive experience. No, being married to Bill doesn't count.
This is why this experience meme was so ridiculous to me.
turn into bash Hillary? If Obama is targetted unfairly, comment on that and prove the meme wrong.
Your above statement
is so way out of proportion, completely ridiculous, something that was bandied literally freely in the primary camp by anti HRC folks especially in the blogs. Hillary Clinton, while married to Bill Clinton, worked mostly in the private sector practicising as a lawyer ('78-'92) and a partner to the Rose Law Firm before Bill started his first presidency in 1992. For your information HRC was selected as a Top 100 lawyer nationally by Time magazine twice during that period. When Bill was earning $35,000 salary as the Arkansas Governor, she was the one earning enough in the private sector to run the family.
Learn more, http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl e/0,9171,974745-1,00.html
Thank you very much for your time.
Clinton's experience in Rose Law Firm wasn't "executive experience." Technically the logic holds.
The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.
President-Elect "That One"
executive experience..technically the logic does not hold.
I kinda consider "executive experience" to be on the order of "CEO" or "President." I always got the impression that Clinton was Rose's master networker, not really a decision-maker type.
That said, I tend to agree with you that not counting her extensive pre-office experience is extremely short-sighted, just as Obama's Harvard Law Review and community service experiences are significant.
Firms work little differently than other companies where there is a single CEO or President. In a Law Firm it is the partners responsibility to bring in the business clientale. I'm not a lawyer or an expert in private practices that's my limited knowledge.
But definitely yes to what to you said about pre-office experiences for Obama and HRC.
Nobody's arguing with you. I'm not denegrating what Clinton's done in her life, I was making a distinction over types of experience, and later admitted that it wasn't all that important in the long run.
Why are you making fun of my name like a grade schooler?
experience, you can safely conclude "it wasn't all that important in the long run."
I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Denny.
Clearly let us be consistent, I mean, she has governors wife experience and presidents wife experience, clearly the most qualified candidate.
Your snark reeks of Democrat attack.
Being the Presidents wife is not experience to be president. If I recall correctly, early in Bill's presidency she tried to be active and failed miserably. Then she went back to the background and made some speeches and hosted dinners.
The argument on its face is silly, Hillary and Obama are both qualified, both gave different talents and abilities. Both are natural born citizens over 35. But the claim that Being a Presidents wife qualifies one is silly.
Just evaluate her experience. Do not nullify years on her resume because she was somebody's wife. You set all women back when you do that.
I am stating that being s presidents wife is not experience, it just isnt. The work with Rose is, her time in the senate is, things she did on her own are. The being first lady argument is flawed at best.
Umm... "Executive Experience" generally refers to the EXECUTIVE branch of government, i.e. the Presidency.
General Clark, for example, considers strategic theatre command to be "executive" experience. Others consider governorships or mayoral positions to be "executive." Some others believe that running a company grants the sort of high level responsibility that's desired in a leader.
Personally I find it all to be bullshit, because there's not a single candidate who is ready to be president when they're chosen for the position the first time; it's not the sort of job where you can really get ready for it via methods other than on-the-job training.
he only participated on teams in the brief period he was at a civil rights law firm.
In terms of taking initiative and leading, Hillary Clinton outflanks Obama by a pretty clear margin.
At least it looks that way if you compare their Wikipedia pages.
Since you're obviously a McPuma, I'm goint to go out on a limb and guess you were for Hillary (or pretended to be)?
How can you count a first lady as experience?
Arkansas First Lady -- 12 years US first Lady -- 8 years US Senator -- 7 years
Clinton had experience being a chief executive? When was that?
The only thing yellow about you is your fear of the truth -- and your cowardly fear of admitting you're really a Republican.
As far as I can tell, yellowdem1129 has always been a Clinton supporter, going back at least to December of last year, perhaps beyond (well before Republican infiltration began in earnest).
He's simply a very conservative DLC Democrat who idolizes people like Harold Ford, Jr. It may be somewhat distasteful to admit, but these sorts of conservative Democrats have been with us a long time, and will remain with us... especially with the new winning strategy of tailoring conservative Democrats to win conservative districts (see Cazayoux, Don). Governor Dean is alright with having them if it means breaking the Republican hegemony, so I guess we should be as well.
That doesn't change the fact that yellowdem here has disasterous policy ideas and doesn't bother to hide his homophobic feelings, so feel free to tear him apart on those issues.
Are you sure the Clinton being referred to isn't Bill Clinton?
Who knows what kooky Obama haters really mean in their fact challenged minds?
is how you self-identify as a "kooky Obama hater".
Mojo for honesty!
By the way, here's some random Wikipedian edumacation for you:
For pronouns as elsewhere, the genitive does not always attribute possession. Consider the following examples: * my child and my mother Although one might argue for ownership of a child, it's much harder to argue for the ownership of a mother. The relation here is not ownership but kinship. * my dream This relation is less clear: one does not quite own their dreams. * his train (as in "If Bob doesn't get to the station in 10 minutes he's going to miss his train") Bob normally does not own the train. * my CD (as in "The kids are enjoying my CD") This noun phrase could refer to the CD that I own, the one with music that I recorded, the one that I bought for the kids, or some other relation identifiable in the context.
* my child and my mother
Although one might argue for ownership of a child, it's much harder to argue for the ownership of a mother. The relation here is not ownership but kinship.
* my dream
This relation is less clear: one does not quite own their dreams.
* his train (as in "If Bob doesn't get to the station in 10 minutes he's going to miss his train")
Bob normally does not own the train.
* my CD (as in "The kids are enjoying my CD")
This noun phrase could refer to the CD that I own, the one with music that I recorded, the one that I bought for the kids, or some other relation identifiable in the context.
was a top ligitator on her right during the time she was Arkansas First Lady? She was working as a lawyer in the private sector just like of most of us normal folks who work to make ends meet for the family. For you and some anti HRC folks, being selected by Time magazine as a top 100 lawyer nationally during that time frame may not mean much, but for most of us it is an indicator that she was a top lawyer and that experience means heck of a lot.
Obama's experience as a community organizer that some Clinton folk crapped all over as meaning nothing.
are completely wrong. Community organizing is not an easy job. It is a great life learning experience for one who wants to be in public service. Those who crapped over it doesn't know what it entails.
I'm not forgetting anything. I'm simply holding others to the same standard of experience that yellowcake held Obama to.
If we use your standard instead, then Obama's experience as a Constitutional law scholar and community organizer should count.
That's fine by me. But double standards aren't.
I would add that such experience adds more to Obama's judgment than decades in the corrupt Congress has added to McBush's.
We should be glad that there are folks like Obama who worked as community organizers, folks working for other NGOs fulltime, giving up lucrative careers to help people and community.
it because his wife Michelle Obama was working hard in the private sector earning enough to run the family. Similarly while Bill was the Attorney Gen or Governor, HRC was working in the private sector. These are life experiences, nothing to diminish anybody.
So nice to see the conversation turn into another primary war. Hmmn. Is there a PUMA diary aroud? I've got time to waste! :(
we have a candidate to defend. I'm not one of those who think we have already won and the Presidency is already in the bag. We win when Obama is elected in November and Dems win back the Senate and the House with higher majorities.
Agreed on all points. Why do people still bring up Hillary?
to say those years don't count because her husband was serving in a higher profile position than her.
Did you know that every year they were married, until Bill was elected governor, that she supported him financially because she had a better salary?
A common thread throughout her career is a focus on children and health care:
Rodham maintained her interest in children's law and family policy, publishing the scholarly articles "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect" in 1977[70] and "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective" in 1979.[71] The latter continued her argument that children's legal competence depended upon their age and other circumstances, and that serious medical rights cases, judicial intervention was sometimes warranted.[50] An American Bar Association chair later said, "Her articles were important, not because they were radically new but because they helped formulate something that had been inchoate."[50] Historian Garry Wills would later describe her as "one of the more important scholar-activists of the last two decades",[72] while conservatives said her theories would usurp traditional parental authority,[73] allow children to file frivolous lawsuits against their parents,[50] and argued that her work was legal "crit" theory run amok.[74] Also in 1977, Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund.[36][75] And later that same year, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana[76]) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation,[77] and she served in that capacity from 1978 until the end of 1981.[78] From mid-1978 to mid-1980[79] she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so.[80] During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million; subsequently she successfully fought President Ronald Reagan's attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.[68]
Also in 1977, Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund.[36][75] And later that same year, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana[76]) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation,[77] and she served in that capacity from 1978 until the end of 1981.[78] From mid-1978 to mid-1980[79] she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so.[80] During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million; subsequently she successfully fought President Ronald Reagan's attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.[68]
Ever heard the story of the boy/girl who cried, "sexism!"?
Eventually nobody paid any attention.
Bitter Deadenders, in the zeal to attack Obama, will employ any double standard available. But it isn't hard to debunk them because they are are so specious.
Nope. Never heard of "the story of the boy/girl who cried, "sexism!" Please recite the story.
Once there was a boy and girl who belonged to a cult. Every time someone pointed out that the leader of their cult was no more or less qualified to be president than the candidate who beat her they cried, "Sexism! Sexism!"
Finally, no one paid any attention to them and they were eaten by Republican wolves.
is married to a carpenter and I wouldn't trust her to hang a picture. I'm so tired of the "she was married to a President" argument.
"Clinton had experience being a chief executive."
Which, of course, is all-important, as evidenced by Governor Richardson's impressive primary performance ...
how can you not count being a state legislator as experience? He had to work with both sides of the aisle, write legislation, and vote. Sounds like being a U.S. Senator.
That's like saying that being a governor doesn't count because it is not the same as being president. The only way to gain experience as president is to actually be president.
But it sounds you like you already have your mind made up. Find whatever excuse to vote against Obama you need, but don't think you'll convert people with this biased crap. You are essentially saying, "The only experience that counts is the kind my candidate had."
who cares if other people have had the same experience? Other candidates in the primaries early on had far more experience and were better "tested" than either Obama or Hillary. It didn't seem to get them anywhere
And it's not as though you couldn't look at his record in the state legislature to find that it was a microcosm of what he would do (and has done) in the Senate.
